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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1131
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Posted - 2014.05.09 20:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.
I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.
None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above
CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it
If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?
You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1131
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:Mike Azariah wrote: I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums.
Yes because making an educated choise between 1-14 candidates out of dozens takes the same amount of time as a post on the forums. Or would you us rather vote like sheep, judging candidates by the alliances they belongs to or some other bs?
I 'do the forums' as part of being in the CSM
Choosing candidates to vote for was easier. But some of the voters did not bother to choose at all, they voted as their bloc had predetermined. It is in THEIR best interest that other lesser blocs or other voters believe the process to be flawed or useless. Thisd is what Weaselior is laughing about. Every person who declaims the election process as broken or the entire concept a farce hand the power to the organized groups who do vote.
So then you complain that it is 'all null and wh' ignoring the independents and the low sec folks who got in.
We go so far as to remove officer positions and some still see it as a power grab or confirmation that the (grr) Goons run the show. So why bother voting in the first place?
Enough of you did to get some independent voices onto the council. Enough of you did to show that a single organized group could forward a person and get him on, regardless of any drop down votes of STV.
Those people I thank. Those of you reading this and adding to the discussion I also thank, whether you voted or not.
Oh and to the abstain idea. I like it. I would prefer that if Abstain wins outright there is another election and none of the original candidates can run in that election. I like to play hardcore.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1132
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: there already is an abstain option; it's called not voting. quite clearly, it's the overwhelming winner.
Nope, because they did not show up to show their disdain in abstaining. They might have been on vacation or too lazy to push butan or (to get back to the original point) they did not even bloody know that there was an election going on.
Thems the ones I want to get to.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1132
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: oh as an aside; votes are in may, been a while since i've been in education but i'm pretty sure may is exam season. sensible people value their education over space politics even if they do care.
Now THAT is a good point. On the assumption (no do not tell me what they say about assume) that we follow past forms the next election may not fall on that timeline. If Fanfest is in March and we elect the winners in March we will have to campaign sooner, vote in maybe even February. Or they can decide a year is a year and run the election after Fanfest.
But good point just the same
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1132
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
It's more than that. Is CSM primarily there to be unpaid junior developers or to hold CCP accountable? I want the latter, but it was abundantly clear that CSM 8 was only interested in the former.
Accountable for what, exactly?
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1134
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 18:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
For the record . . . I was on the last place of the CFC ballot
I don't feel nuked
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1135
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 20:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:
seriously, mynnna is indefatigable in this regard, he casually deflects every stupid idea we tell him
He has a lot of practice in a given year.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1136
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 19:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Darin Vanar wrote:And how exactly is highsec supposed to organize? Are we a lobbying group?
People are in highsec exactly because they don't seek power blocs, but all of a sudden they are expected to be in one to get a representative on the CSM? It's no wonder none of them bothered to vote.
Except, some did. After all, I got in.
Darin Vanar wrote:And if someone is dishonest about that when running, and CCP makes that illegal, their seat would just go to the runner up and so forth. At least that's how it happens in real life, if someone breaks rules of office.
Does that mean Ali would have lost her seat when she 'crossed the floor' from Provi to become a Merc?
Darin Vanar wrote:Maybe we should not have this mimic real life and instead, have CCP elections where the staff votes for players they would like to speak with about upcoming things they are working with. It would be more "developer oriented" and not this, death by committee they want to put themselves in the corner in.
CCP have all the power, and regardless of real life applications, they are a business and are a developer, not a government.
Oddly, this happens. Of the 14 council the two permanent attendees are sure of going to Iceland both times. The others? Well activity AND WHO THE DEVS WANT TO SEE play a part. So that is in effect.
Darin Vanar wrote:From a business point of view, and I mean this without any disrespect, that's the worst thing I've ever come across for a development house. No clear direction. No tough as nails vision of this is what we are doing, and this is how we are going to do it. "This is where the game is headed in the future." We don't like A and B, so we are going to do C. That is what you need to be successful, not listen to some player elected muppets, who have no qualifications and no idea what it is like to run a gaming house or the hierarchy of development. No experience to really work there, but log in everyday to blow up spaceships and play the game everyone else is playing. A game that you developed.
The CSM is an advisory committee. We do not have power beyond the fact that we usually have managed to give good advice. CCP always has the last call as to what stays and what goes. But when they set course for a distant goal and we see it as an iceberg it is easier to make a slight course correction now than wait till the last minute and scream hard starboard. In the ship that is Eve the council are in the crows nest, not at the helm.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1138
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 00:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:
I personally saw no need to vote this year as the CSM seems more worried about access than with bringing up player concerns.
In spite of that, if you bring up a concern to me and it look solid I will kick it up the ladder, just the same.
. . . so there :p
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1138
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 00:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: That is exactly the point. The CSM is acting as a barrier to CCP and the end result is that CCP do not feel the need to communicate properly with the playerbase like so many other games.
You say barrier, I say filter.
CCP does need to work and cannot pause to listen to every idea that comes down the pike. Stroll through assembly hall, GD, and F & I for a bit. Should ALL those ideas be something that CCP needs to react to, again and again and again?
If you think I won't be the right guy to take your idea forward then write directly to one of the other 13 people on the council. If all of us dislike your idea . . . well then maybe it needs a rewrite or you can start a threadnaught in the forums to make CCP listen.
Me . . . a barrier.
no
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1139
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Posted - 2014.05.12 05:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:please don't encourage him to write a blog it'd probably get all the highsec carebears talking like he does
Benny, that hurts
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1140
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 16:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
This follows in the precedent set by Dolan. CSM is not to be a conduit of 'other information'. The minutes are not a sneak peek at what is coming next and a source for insider information. The election results are not a look at the CCP's current business success.
We represent you but we do not spy for you.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1140
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:I find it fascinating that discussion of the meta surrounding CSM elections is more interesting than actually logging in.
qft
The meta is always better because we are not dependent on ai or programming limitations
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1140
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 02:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I thought we covered this.
There are so many avenues of communication that all the CSM covering ALL of them would be redundant, repetitive, and redundant.
So I am the forum person for the moment, the others drop in if the mood takes them, as you have seen CCP Leeloo also may stop by, especially if I point something specific out to her.
What you don't see is the number of forum links that are brought up in our private chats. Or you don't see when a discussion between the forum and devs is ongoing (but not about something you are interested in) like in this discussion with WH folks https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4558809#post4558809
But don't let an isolated example distract you from your narrative that the system in place to be the conduit between players and CCP is actually the blockage.
You won't find all the CSM here, you got me.
You won't find all the devs here, they are off devving. If, like LS in the example, above, you can present a well reasoned argument then a conversation may ensue. If you throw up your hands and declare yourself to be unsubbing or that Eve is dying then do not expect engagement from busy people.
This started as a thread about the CSM results. You voted or you didn't. If you didn't then you are in the majority of Eve players. Doesn't really matter to me, I got elected and I plan on trying to take your good ideas and comments forward and considering the rest before moving on. Rant, I'll read it. Argue persuasively and I will show it to others.
Unsub? Yer stuff, can I haz?
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1140
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 05:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote: I cant tell if you are trying to respond to me, or just the thread in general. You are commenting on things that i am asking but are strangely specific about things i have not said.
When I am answering a specific person I try to quote them, when it is more a general tone . . . I just go for it
next parts are Not at you, Kusum
Now the last few posts show that I can ask for a few others on the council to chime in, if they care to but, as some said, they leave most of this stuff to me.
Fun bit of math. Assume the 31000 (give or take) people who voted would rather talk directly to a dev since the CSM are not facilitating communication. Further imagine that they figure they only need ten minutes to explain how the game could be fixed.
(31000*10)/60 = 5166 hours of chat time. That is assuming on dev and not meeting with teams which would take a multiple of that in man hours.
assume an 8 hour day. 5166/8=645.75 days 5 days a week would give you 129 weeks, or a shade over two years in which time the Game would have gone through how many iterations?
If the dev spent all those days/weeks/years listening to you how would he find time to program or tell other devs what was the new great idea and what bits were not so good, not so great?
Oh I know I was pulling numbers out of my ass on this one and that no where near that number would want to talk to the devs. But the idea behind it and behind the CSM is that we don't have to find out what the real numbers are. You have us. The CSM
If you don't like who we are or what we do or how we do it there are quite a few options. Most have been mentioned in this thread already. If I come across as mean or mocking then the others, above, have offered contacts as well not to mention this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=343862&find=unread I posted and is stickied in Jita Park that shows how to get in touch with most of us.
For now, I do the forums, but I am not the CSM9, I am one member who is willing to come here and listen and answer. I am one of 14 people who, for better or worse, were elected by the people who voted.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1147
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 17:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jethrow Toralen wrote: (Appeared to be filtered for characters created after the last CSM)
I chatted with Trebor about the parameters he used for his mailing list. It was interesting stuff. Much better targetted than most.
As to getting the vote out, I am surprised none of you mention The Mittanis 'editorial' decision to say NOTHING about the election while it was ongoing. Not taking sides is one thing, running the silent treatment is another. If it had a detrimental effect on the voter turnout . . .who do you think profited?
Does the community fansites have an obligation to help with voter awareness or is it all upon CCP?
Should CCP give rewards encouragement to sites that support the election, do interviews and debates?
If so then Cap Stable, Legacy of a Capsuleer, and Declarations of war should get some boosts (among other podcasts) as should quite a few blogs that dealt with the issues and interviewed or analyzed the candidates. Maybe recruiting the community to help get out the vote and give them a reason to help will be part of the answer.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
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